A friend posted the video below to his facebook page a week or so ago, with the comment "PLEASE TAKE TIME TO WATCH THIS VIDEO! I HOPE IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE LIKE IT HAS CHANGED MINE RECENTLY!!!!" (thanks, Josh).
I found it compelling and yet disturbing. There is much that he says that I'm in full agreement with. And it's hard to say that there are things he says that I disagree with, because everything he says comes from scripture, and he's not misquoting it or misinterpreting it. And yet I find I strongly disagree with the overall message that seems to be coming through. Maybe it's what he doesn't say that I disagree with.
Watch these videos (it was posted a few days ago on YouTube in two parts, and that's the easiest for me to incorporate), and then read my thoughts below.
The Fire Part 01
The Fire Part 02
What he seems to be saying without saying it, is stop sinning so much and you won't go to hell. Nowhere does he ever talk about trusting in Christ for salvation, about being saved by God's grace, "not of works". And the monstrous problem with his message is, how do you ever know if you've stopped sinning "enough," if you've loved God "enough", if you've brought forth "enough" fruit? How can you be assured of salvation?
I heartily agree with his contention that we value the forgiveness of God far too cheaply. I agree that if we are truly saved, there will be fruit in our lives. But he seems to be saying that it's up to us to produce that fruit. He almost seems to be saying that anything less than sinless perfection means that you hate God and are going to hell.
I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I don't want to compare myself to others, but I think I take more seriously the claims of Christ and expend more effort in seeking to know him than most Christians I know. But I sin. I probably sin in areas I don't even recognize as sin. The Jews were commanded "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might". I know I don't do that perfectly, and not doing that perfectly is sin.
What this guy (Nate Pfeil, by the way) is saying strikes me as very much at odds with what I, as a lifelong "Evangelical" Christian, have been taught - that our salvation is dependent solely on our trust in the completed work of Christ, and, while it is our responsibility to surrender to God's work in our lives, it is the work of God through the Holy Spirit to bring forth the fruit in our lives.
And yet, as I said, his points are scriptural. So have I been led down the primrose path by, in his words "lying preachers, wolves in sheep's clothing?" As he says, his message is serious. The consequences of getting it wrong are too high. So it's prompting me to want to step back, re-examine and re-think what I believe and the basis for it. And I'm thinking, let's go ALL the way back, to "There is a god (and I'm not him!)". So I think that's what I'm going to do, and doing it in these pages will force me, I hope, to clarify my thoughts and the reasons behind them.
Stay tuned.
I found it compelling and yet disturbing. There is much that he says that I'm in full agreement with. And it's hard to say that there are things he says that I disagree with, because everything he says comes from scripture, and he's not misquoting it or misinterpreting it. And yet I find I strongly disagree with the overall message that seems to be coming through. Maybe it's what he doesn't say that I disagree with.
Watch these videos (it was posted a few days ago on YouTube in two parts, and that's the easiest for me to incorporate), and then read my thoughts below.
The Fire Part 01
The Fire Part 02
What he seems to be saying without saying it, is stop sinning so much and you won't go to hell. Nowhere does he ever talk about trusting in Christ for salvation, about being saved by God's grace, "not of works". And the monstrous problem with his message is, how do you ever know if you've stopped sinning "enough," if you've loved God "enough", if you've brought forth "enough" fruit? How can you be assured of salvation?
I heartily agree with his contention that we value the forgiveness of God far too cheaply. I agree that if we are truly saved, there will be fruit in our lives. But he seems to be saying that it's up to us to produce that fruit. He almost seems to be saying that anything less than sinless perfection means that you hate God and are going to hell.
I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I don't want to compare myself to others, but I think I take more seriously the claims of Christ and expend more effort in seeking to know him than most Christians I know. But I sin. I probably sin in areas I don't even recognize as sin. The Jews were commanded "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might". I know I don't do that perfectly, and not doing that perfectly is sin.
What this guy (Nate Pfeil, by the way) is saying strikes me as very much at odds with what I, as a lifelong "Evangelical" Christian, have been taught - that our salvation is dependent solely on our trust in the completed work of Christ, and, while it is our responsibility to surrender to God's work in our lives, it is the work of God through the Holy Spirit to bring forth the fruit in our lives.
And yet, as I said, his points are scriptural. So have I been led down the primrose path by, in his words "lying preachers, wolves in sheep's clothing?" As he says, his message is serious. The consequences of getting it wrong are too high. So it's prompting me to want to step back, re-examine and re-think what I believe and the basis for it. And I'm thinking, let's go ALL the way back, to "There is a god (and I'm not him!)". So I think that's what I'm going to do, and doing it in these pages will force me, I hope, to clarify my thoughts and the reasons behind them.
Stay tuned.
Walking with God: Talk to Him. Hear from Him. Really., by John Eldredge
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